Tag: seat

Evidence against theory of “Serial Production Standard” …

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Last time I spoke to my VW Service Partner and VW Importer for Denmark, they wanted to find a reference car to see if this car has the same noise, and if it behaves the same way as mine does. I guess they are hoping to prove to me, that this car/model is supposed to do this. As they keep on telling me, that this is normal behavior for this make and model. And they need exact car as mine, to use it as reference point. I tried to argue and reason with them, in regard, that I could find evidence of others having same problems, on different makes and models. But it felt to deaf ears.

Here I will try to prove that this has nothing to do with the car/model or make but that it has to do with DSG7 design, which is most probably, flawed by design. And this is not going to be that hard, as this is easy to prove by simple search on the internet. So their reasoning, is, this is “serial production standard”. I wrote about this in my last post, here.

If this is Serial Production Standard for my car;

  • why is this happening to other models and makes;
  • why this did not happened from the start;
  • when they replaced the flywheel on my car, problem disappeared for about 18.000 km and then it came back, why.

No answers to these questions.

Let’s have a look on what models I have been able to find same complaints from their owners.

  • AUDI
    • A1 (1)
  • SKODA
    • Fabia (1) (2)
  • SEAT
    • Ibiza (1)
  • VW
    • Touran (1)
    • Scirocco (1)
    • Golf (1) (2) (3) (4)
    • Jetta (1)

This makes it easy for me to logically conclude that my car/model is not alone in this so-called, “Serial Production Standard”, and trying to prove it by finding a reference car that has the same configuration as mine is not going to prove anything. This is again, most probably an attempt to extend their time in which they have to figure out what to do, or how to reply to my inquiries, and waste mine.

Thread (in Danish) about problems with DSG7, on one of the big names in online used cars websites of cars in Denmark  Link: http://www.bilbasen.dk/forum/generelt/erfaring-med-automatikdsg/23512

On a Danish website, for owners of all Volkswagen AG (VAG) cars, are gathered and discuss all aspects of their cars, there is a poll about problems in general with DSG (6 and 7), and result is showing it clearly. Poll and discussion: http://www.vagcars.dk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=60305

Results as of writing this are, 110 people answered the poll, 68 (62%) did not have problems and 38% did have problems. Out of these there are 21 with DSG7 gearboxes. Of those, 10 (48%) had problems, while 11 (52%) did not have problems. I know, this poll is not scientific in any way, but that’s what it shows. 

Comment: Serial Production Standard

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I wanted to comment on few things regarding Volkswagen’s conclusion on my problems with DSG7 gearbox.

After replacing a DSG7 gearbox, flywheel, dual clutches (twice), mechatronic (reset twice and replacement once) the car/gearbox is still making grinding noise and shuddering/juddering and having uneven acceleration on periodical basis.
They (VW) concluded that this is “Serial Production Standard”.

What does this Serial Production Standard means?

Well in my mind, this means that the car is behaving within normal parameters of operation they are expecting to see. Which in turn means, they can acknowledge  my complaints, but they are not going to do anything about it, as they mean I should live with it.

There are few things, in their conclusion, I don’t agree with;

  • First of all, their Serial Production Standards might be set too low, as no car I have driven so far, has done this. If Volkswagen is expecting customers to live with faulty hardware they paid premium for, they really need a reality check. I am not accepting anything less than what I paid for, as I have my own standards what should a car make and not make of noises. I am probably not alone in this, either. Metallic grinding noises are not standard in any mechanical device. This is either considered as a sign of poor hardware design or worn parts. Grinding is always considered sign for premature ware of the hardware and cause for concern. And this is to be expected in moving parts, even when lubricated. But, it is not supposed to ware after only 5.000 km. This is not a standard and can’t be a standard for few reasons.
    1. When I bought the car, it did not make this noise, nor did it shake my kidney stones. Ergo, can not be a standard, as it was not there the whole time, but something that car started to make/do afterwards.
    2. Car was manufactured wrongly, and it fixed itself while I was driving it? Bought a car no noise no juddering.

When they replaced flywheel, noise and shaking disappeared. But, it came back again after some time, so this makes me think replacing flywheel is not the permanent solution. But it might have solved it temporarily. So, to claim that this is standard noise, is just rubbish and trying to avoid real cause of the problem. I might conclude following if I am to believe their conclusion.

  • Noise and juddering, disappeared after a visit to their shop, it might be they installed fly-wheel incorrectly. As it took a whole year before it started to make the “standard” noises and shake again. Either they destroyed something while replacing flywheel in the car, and then the car used a year to fix itself, or there is real problem that should not be ignored. But, who knows?! Maybe that’s why we (VW owners) pay premium. VW cars can fix themself. Now, that’s what I call getting good value for the money. (Be aware of irony)
  • Also, their conclusion does not explain for why some cars have this problem, while others don’t. Across the makes even, but all owned by VAG (Volkswagen AG). I’ve seen reports from owners of Skoda, SEAT and VW; all with the same DSG7 gearbox and with exact the same problems across the world. In Denmark, in one poll, this was approximately 20% of owners that had problems with their DSG7 gearbox. It is not specified what kind of problems. I am not saying poll results as absolute results and can’t be wrong, but it does make me wonder why did 20% had problems. There may even be more than 20%, but are not aware of the noise or they haven’t reached the “ware”-threshold for when the problem is noticeable. Or even that they are waiting for a warning “light” turn on before they take action.

Another thing…

I can live with the noise, but I just want to be assured that this is not premature ware, as I am suspecting it to be. And reports/letters from VW officials in China, Russia, Malaysia and USA are not assuring me in this. They are extending warranty on all DSG7 gearboxes to 10 years or 150-160.000 km. Reasoning being, “no permanent fix for the problem exist”, so to assure owners in the product they are extending warranty. Guess what, if it’s the same gearbox and same problems worldwide, why keep it isolated only to few countries, when this gearbox is sold worldwide? Economical reasons, probably.

Value loss

All this amounts to not being happy with the way car is behaving and I am expecting it to behave.
When I went to dealership where I bought and serviced the car to trade it in for another car. Same make and model, only younger (in hope that this one is not going to behave like the first one). I was given an estimate of losing 35-40% of cars value. Car, at that point was, 17 months old, and had 42.000 km on the clock, in mint condition. My car is a TDI (1.6) Highline model with DSG7 with all kind of extras for at least €15.000. And yet, I am losing 35-40% of its value. Why?

Dealership have in their used-cars department a Comfort and Trendline models, same age, with manual transmission and about 15.000 km less on the clock then mine, and they are selling them for more than what they estimated my car value is. I understand they need to earn some money on the resale of the car, but 35% is a bit too much of the value loss, especially if Volkswagen AG is saying there is nothing wrong with the car.

For comparation take a look at this…

  • Comfortline (manual) : NEW = 370.000 DKK vs. USED = 309.000 DKK (– 16%)
  • My Highline (aut. DSG7) : NEW = 475.000 DKK vs. USED/ESTIMATED = 300.000 DKK (-35%)

Alone the difference in DSG7 vs. manual should give at least 45.000 DKK more in value for my car, not even taking into account that the car has;

  • park assist,
  • light assist,
  • cabin warmer, (with remote)
  • mirror package,
  • winter package,
  • sport package,
  • 17″ Oakland wheels.