Tag: vag

DSG DQ200 0AM – Problems and thoughts

Was sent this few days ago. It’s a document that dwells a bit more into problems of VAG 7-speed DSG gearbox. In a bit more detail, than I was able to do and found before.

DSG DQ200 0AM – Problems and thoughts

There is one interesting thing here, that I was not aware of before, and it is the knowledge of the problem. According to this document, VAG/VW knew about the problem, at the time I bought the car. They did not acknowledge this, when I was ordering my car. I asked them specifically about any problems with this gearbox, and they told me in a way, that it is “the best they made”.

Comment: Serial Production Standard

I wanted to comment on few things regarding Volkswagen’s conclusion on my problems with DSG7 gearbox.

After replacing a DSG7 gearbox, flywheel, dual clutches (twice), mechatronic (reset twice and replacement once) the car/gearbox is still making grinding noise and shuddering/juddering and having uneven acceleration on periodical basis.
They (VW) concluded that this is “Serial Production Standard”.

What does this Serial Production Standard means?

Well in my mind, this means that the car is behaving within normal parameters of operation they are expecting to see. Which in turn means, they can acknowledge  my complaints, but they are not going to do anything about it, as they mean I should live with it.

There are few things, in their conclusion, I don’t agree with;

  • First of all, their Serial Production Standards might be set too low, as no car I have driven so far, has done this. If Volkswagen is expecting customers to live with faulty hardware they paid premium for, they really need a reality check. I am not accepting anything less than what I paid for, as I have my own standards what should a car make and not make of noises. I am probably not alone in this, either. Metallic grinding noises are not standard in any mechanical device. This is either considered as a sign of poor hardware design or worn parts. Grinding is always considered sign for premature ware of the hardware and cause for concern. And this is to be expected in moving parts, even when lubricated. But, it is not supposed to ware after only 5.000 km. This is not a standard and can’t be a standard for few reasons.
    1. When I bought the car, it did not make this noise, nor did it shake my kidney stones. Ergo, can not be a standard, as it was not there the whole time, but something that car started to make/do afterwards.
    2. Car was manufactured wrongly, and it fixed itself while I was driving it? Bought a car no noise no juddering.

When they replaced flywheel, noise and shaking disappeared. But, it came back again after some time, so this makes me think replacing flywheel is not the permanent solution. But it might have solved it temporarily. So, to claim that this is standard noise, is just rubbish and trying to avoid real cause of the problem. I might conclude following if I am to believe their conclusion.

  • Noise and juddering, disappeared after a visit to their shop, it might be they installed fly-wheel incorrectly. As it took a whole year before it started to make the “standard” noises and shake again. Either they destroyed something while replacing flywheel in the car, and then the car used a year to fix itself, or there is real problem that should not be ignored. But, who knows?! Maybe that’s why we (VW owners) pay premium. VW cars can fix themself. Now, that’s what I call getting good value for the money. (Be aware of irony)
  • Also, their conclusion does not explain for why some cars have this problem, while others don’t. Across the makes even, but all owned by VAG (Volkswagen AG). I’ve seen reports from owners of Skoda, SEAT and VW; all with the same DSG7 gearbox and with exact the same problems across the world. In Denmark, in one poll, this was approximately 20% of owners that had problems with their DSG7 gearbox. It is not specified what kind of problems. I am not saying poll results as absolute results and can’t be wrong, but it does make me wonder why did 20% had problems. There may even be more than 20%, but are not aware of the noise or they haven’t reached the “ware”-threshold for when the problem is noticeable. Or even that they are waiting for a warning “light” turn on before they take action.

Another thing…

I can live with the noise, but I just want to be assured that this is not premature ware, as I am suspecting it to be. And reports/letters from VW officials in China, Russia, Malaysia and USA are not assuring me in this. They are extending warranty on all DSG7 gearboxes to 10 years or 150-160.000 km. Reasoning being, “no permanent fix for the problem exist”, so to assure owners in the product they are extending warranty. Guess what, if it’s the same gearbox and same problems worldwide, why keep it isolated only to few countries, when this gearbox is sold worldwide? Economical reasons, probably.

Value loss

All this amounts to not being happy with the way car is behaving and I am expecting it to behave.
When I went to dealership where I bought and serviced the car to trade it in for another car. Same make and model, only younger (in hope that this one is not going to behave like the first one). I was given an estimate of losing 35-40% of cars value. Car, at that point was, 17 months old, and had 42.000 km on the clock, in mint condition. My car is a TDI (1.6) Highline model with DSG7 with all kind of extras for at least €15.000. And yet, I am losing 35-40% of its value. Why?

Dealership have in their used-cars department a Comfort and Trendline models, same age, with manual transmission and about 15.000 km less on the clock then mine, and they are selling them for more than what they estimated my car value is. I understand they need to earn some money on the resale of the car, but 35% is a bit too much of the value loss, especially if Volkswagen AG is saying there is nothing wrong with the car.

For comparation take a look at this…

  • Comfortline (manual) : NEW = 370.000 DKK vs. USED = 309.000 DKK (– 16%)
  • My Highline (aut. DSG7) : NEW = 475.000 DKK vs. USED/ESTIMATED = 300.000 DKK (-35%)

Alone the difference in DSG7 vs. manual should give at least 45.000 DKK more in value for my car, not even taking into account that the car has;

  • park assist,
  • light assist,
  • cabin warmer, (with remote)
  • mirror package,
  • winter package,
  • sport package,
  • 17″ Oakland wheels.



Just used Google, Translate to read the description of the problem in Russian DSG7 owner complaint. Read more about it on DSG7.com (translated to english)
For documentation purposes, I am copying the description page from Russian complaint site, where they managed to get their claims acknowleded.
Volkswagen DSG-7 DQ200 0AM – collective claims

Friends! Daily work on the problem box DSG – ours and our partners (public officials and lawyers), and your support – have brought the first positive results. July 24th we received a letter from the representatives of JSC “Volkswagen Group Rus” as follows: (1) a guarantee of the diagnosis and repair free of charge at the box DSG-7 DQ200 0AM be extended to 5 years or 150 thousand km run, (2) it applies to all group brands (VW, Skoda, Seat), except for Audi. Scan the letter here . Present is a formal letter to the dealer if it is “not in the subject.” This is not kulants is the official warranty extension! Many thanks to all who supported us morally and financially. We also take out thanks to the concern “Volkswagen” for the thorough and detailed response. Unfortunately, however, our colleagues at Audi cars under the program were not included, although these expensive cars set the same gearbox DSG-7, with the same problems.

DSG-7 – the seven-speed robotized gearbox with double clutch DQ200 0AM, installed in the production of Volkswagen Group Rus .Over the lifetime of the box in the series (a / m 2008-11 onwards), its users faced with many faults .

Description of the main problems DSG -7 shown in official report on the repair and maintenance of a / m group Volkswagen (called TPI ) number 2026097:

vibration / shudder during acceleration by 2 transfer ;
jerks / vibration during acceleration by 2 transfer for about 1-2 seconds (for example, when passing obstacles or renewal dispersal between 5 and 10 km / h);
vibrations, jerks / shudder when switching from 1st to 2nd gear at low speed (not a single push);
jerk / shudder when starting at the back of the transmission .

It is valid for all the a / m all model years and explains design feature – namely, “sags friction multi-disc clutch” . TPI recommends replacing the clutch (for a / m Volkswagen, Skoda, etc. by unknown). There are also a number of other typical faults:

In slow motion, up to about 30 km / h, from the front of the car are heard knocks (vibration noise) – when driving on a strip of the Congress (“washboard”), on a cobblestone street or other public road bumps. Twitch when starting off, when the engine stalls several consumers. (TPI № 2023351)
The display instrument panel blinks transmission. Jerking the car. Box does not switch to the next gear. (TPI № 2024664)
Refusal automatic transmission. Inability to establish communication with the automatic transmission control unit tester. In the event log of some control units reported a communication error with the automatic gearbox control unit. (TPI № 2023768)
When repairing a transmission (replacing the unit Mechatronik, noise, etc.) found on the chip plugs switching solenoids. (TPI № 2026829)

There have also fault block “mechatronics”: a total failure, and the occasional break clutch while driving. This is a serious malfunction, which in some cases have led to situations where miraculously managed to avoid accidents.It is possible that cases of this kind, but it led to failure at this point is still unknown.

In fact, users and / m with DSG-7 were unwitting participants in the global testing of the new box. Thus, when buying a / m on possible malfunctions of the box to consumers was provided. As a result, some of the owners and / m production Volkswagen have 2-3 replacement parts alone transmission with mileage is 30-50 thousand km., and the problems begin to show with three thousand miles.

Unfortunately, in Russia , Volkswagen closes direct calls users of its products to authorized dealers . Instead of specific answers to questions about the essence of troubleshooting methods and timing of their removal, the Group makes the following responses: “Our company appreciates your car of choice” … “. On your question of …, we asked for comments on the Retail Network Ltd. “…”. ” , “You need to contact an authorized dealer, the staff are trained in a specialized training center company” Volkswagen Group Rus “and have the necessary experience and qualifications for service. ”

Some dealers, in turn, do not recognize the problems DSG box and do not remove them within the official reports on repair and maintenance and / m Volkswagen Group . There are many cases where the dealer explained above faults: the feature of the unit DSG; its adaptability; overheating in city mode at traffic lights, failure of the machine created by users. In this case, information about the nature of the problem reports of dealers is not given , is proposed to fill the form recommended by DSG problems . Often dealers claim state the absence of errors, computer readable, and offer to come to them for repair only when the machine is no longer ride .

The authors of this website offer those who have encountered problems DSG -7, tackle them together . Compiled claim , which can be signed online, and the signature will be legally correct. After collecting sufficient signatures complaint will be forwarded to Volgswagen Group Rus . forum of this site is intended to record all cases of failure , discuss problems and solutions. To the site will be brought to the attention of concern Volkswagen, other manufacturers and / m, specialized media and lawyers.