Tag: dsg

VW in China recalls imported cars as well

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Some more news from China, about DSG7 (DQ200) gearboxes. VW in China is issuing recall on imported cars as well. That is, VW cars with DSG7, not manufactured in China. Which was the fundamental excuse for Volkswagen’s claim for not recognising the same problem in the rest of the world. Even thou symptoms and problems are 100% identical to those in China. Volkswagen, so far, is still refusing to acknowledge existence of the problem in Europe and elsewhere.

With this latest recall, one could conclude following;

  • VW is well aware of the issue with their DQ200 gearboxes and is trying to hide the extend of the problem.
  • All DQ200 gearboxes are manufactured in China, contrary to what VW wants us to believe.

To recap, for less informed readers on recall

Across Europe and world as well, VW is claiming that only Chinese manufactured gearboxes are defective and therefore, no other markets are affected by this problem with their DSG7 (DQ200) gearboxes. But this new recall, that is actually recalling imported cars (non-Chinese manufactured) with DSG7. Which throws out of the window VW theories/reasons for defective gearboxes. On all continents there are customers with DSG7 gearboxes, with same problems. Only difference there is, how Volkswagen is “forced” to react. Everything else about this problem is actually identical.

  • Power loss
  • Slipping clutches
  • Noise

Read the original article :: http://english.cri.cn/6826/2013/07/04/2702s773954.htm

DSG7 failure – Numbers do not add up…

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We have new information about problems with DSG7 gearbox.

According to figures from VW DK, there are about sold 8.500 cars with DSG7 in Denmark. And only 311 of them would have had problems with the gearbox. It is about 3.7% of cars with DSG7 …
We do not know what the overall margin of error is on the cars, but 3.7% may not sound like much … Or?

At the same time when you read articles from the German DSG7 problems, they also have “several hundred cars” …
The same “numbers” found in the article linked to below.

If one were to stick to statistics, so Germany should have a greater share of problems, since there are more who bought the car with DSG7. But funny enough, the figure is more or less “the same” as in Denmark.

At the same time, there will be in this article from Jylland-Posten (http://epn.dk/privat/biler/ECE5429249/vw-kunder-klager-over-gearkasse/), said of the VW DK, the number of customers in Germany the problem is more significant.Reasoned, with the Danish tax and other geography, and higher speeds and longer distance driven.

So, who is creative with numbers here? Who are they trying to mislead? The Germans or the Danes?
And who buys these explanations?

When one thinks of “several hundred” what figure do they have in mind?
We would say about 200-300 …

In Sweden, VW deprecated Taxi companies in buying cars with DSG7 as there are too many start-stop situations. As a means to DSG7 obviously not suitable for short trips.
In Germany it is too long trips, too many hills. In Sweden, too short trips. In Denmark it is too little hills and low speeds, maybe even danish tax system, which evidently is causing the problem?

Many unanswered questions … Maybe it is the journalists who ask the right questions of the critical nature.

Comparing the components…

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So I got a hold of a component ID’s from a Golf 2013 model, and compared it to my car logs from 08/2011.

My VW Touran 1.6TDI DSG7 2011

Styreenhed 02: Automatik Forklaringsfil: NEZAM-300-04x.clb
Styreenhedsnr. SW: 0AM 300 049 K HW: 0AM 927 769 D
Komponent : GSG DSG AG7 411 2101
Revision: 00041014 Serienummer: 00001103260311
Kodning : 0000020Forhandler : WSC 04940 001 00001
VCID: 39735D3C09C9
Ingen fejlkoder fundet.

 

VW Golf TDI DSG7 2013

Adress 02: Automatväxel Labels: 0AM-300-04x.lbl
Artikelnr SW: 0AM 300 054 E HW: 0AM 927 769 D
Komponent: GSG DSG AG7 431 3630
Revision: 00043014 Serienummer: CU50120500000
Kodning: 0000020 Verkstad #: WSC 01357 011 00200
VCID: 2F552CEABEB8F760886
Ingen felkod funnen.

Bold = identical
Red = older
Green = newer

Both gearboxes are identical, as they have the same hardware ID. Software is only minor revision compared to mine. Revision line is different but I am not sure what is this covering. Maybe somebody else can shine some light on this.

So all in all, if VW is claiming that they have built new revised gearbox, I don’t see it here, as the Hardware should have changed as well? I think they just adjusted the software to make the shifting a bit faster, and at higher RPM’s. Which results in higher fuel consumption, than advertised. And yes, I know that fuel consumption is already lower than advertised, I mean, even lower… And they still can’t provide definitive proof that this even works. Because it does not work on my gearbox.

Dear Volkswagen, stop lying to your customers!

 

DSG DQ200 0AM – Problems and thoughts

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Was sent this few days ago. It’s a document that dwells a bit more into problems of VAG 7-speed DSG gearbox. In a bit more detail, than I was able to do and found before.

DSG DQ200 0AM – Problems and thoughts

There is one interesting thing here, that I was not aware of before, and it is the knowledge of the problem. According to this document, VAG/VW knew about the problem, at the time I bought the car. They did not acknowledge this, when I was ordering my car. I asked them specifically about any problems with this gearbox, and they told me in a way, that it is “the best they made”.

VW to recall 21 different models, est. 680.000 vehicles…

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-20/volkswagen-recalls-384-181-vehicles-in-china-for-gearbox-faults.html

The company is recalling vehicles with the seven-speed variety of its direct-shift gearboxes, bearing the cost for replacing defective equipment and upgrading the software, it said in an e-mail statement. LMC estimates Volkswagen sold about 680,000 vehicles equipped with the potentially faulty DSG gearboxes.

Volkswagen China to “voluntarily” recall cars with DSG

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Volkswagen has been and will continue to actively cooperate with the competent authorities. Volkswagen will launch a voluntary recall for DSG issues. Details in regards to the recall, Volkswagen will be announced in the near future.

Original Link from VW China :: http://www.vw.com.cn/en/corporate_information1/news/NewsIndex.suffix.html/News2013~2FNews_2013_6.html

More on a subject of defective DSG gearboxes in China :: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/motoring/2013-03/16/content_16313553.htm and http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/motoring/2013-03/18/content_16317719.htm

Court: DSG7 affected by a hidden defect preventing use under normal conditions

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A consumer in France, filed a lawsuit against VW, for troubles with DSG7 gearbox, and won. Interesting thing is, that his/hers problems with DSG7 are identical to mine. Here is the verdict, the most important parts.

(Translated by Google Translate)

Receives a request for declaring the cancellation of the sale of a motor vehicle
VOLKSWAGEN POLO Comfort Line, 5th Room – 1st Section of the Tribunal de Grande
Instance PARIS, January 16, 2013, held:
“In this particular case, the nature of the noise (obviously wrong), frequency (certain
for city traffic), its origin (gearbox), the technical impossibility of there
overcome the uncertainty and its impact on anxiety and distraction that can
naturally cause at one time or another, are all elements
incompatible with normal driving (comfortable and safe) that could be
expected of a new vehicle quality at the forefront of technological progress.
(…) The hidden nature of this defect, and prior to the sale have not been challenged and
arising from the content of documents submitted in evidence.
It must therefore be held that the vehicle sold to VOLKSWAGEN POLO Mrs. J. is
affected by a hidden defect preventing its use under normal conditions or
satisfactory.
The resolution of the sale of the vehicle must be ordered. ”
Accordingly, the Tribunal issued the resolution for latent defects of the vehicle
VOLKSWAGEN POLO sold January 14, 2011 to Mrs. J. by the MS Society.,
VOLKSWAGEN dealer in Paris.
– Sentenced MS Society. payable to Mrs J. a sum of € 17,212.69 in restitution
price paid
– Sentenced MS Society. to pay a sum of € 1,783.22 as damages
for the costs incurred by the purchase of the vehicle,
– Sentenced MS Society. payable to Mrs J. a sum of € 1,000 in compensation for his
pecuniary damage,
– Ordained to Mrs. J. proceed without delay to the return of the vehicle purchased January 14th
2011 at the MS Society.,
– Condemns the MS Society. payable to Mrs J. a sum of € 2,000 per application
Article 700 of the Code of Civil Procedure,
– Condemns the Company VOLKSWAGEN FRANCE GROUPE to ensure all
convictions against the MS Society. in favor of Mrs. J.
The Company VOLKSWAGEN FRANCE GROUPE pay the costs.
Mrs. J. was litigator: Master Eric KLEIN Bar PARIS

VW: DSG7 is not suitable for TAXI behaviour

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While I am waiting for the verdict of my complaint to danish authority for car complaints, I have discovered an article from Teknikens Värld (Swedish car mag). This article is rising an important point in the defective DSG7 gearboxes from VW.

Some taxi companies in Sweden, have been advised, by VW, not to buy models with DSG7 gearboxes. As they are not suitable for this behaviour, again, according to VW. As the gearbox and its clutches wear prematurely because of the high frequency of starts and stops. Which basically in my opinion means, that VW is selling cars where they are well aware that combination, engine and gearbox is not optimal. More precisely, in one specific case, VW is claiming that Passat EcoFuel DSG7 is not suitable for taxi behaviour. And VW is proposing their VW Touran with DSG7 as a better option for taxies.

But then, I own a Touran DSG7, that they are claiming is better then Passat, but as you can read here, I have plenty of problems with the gearbox or overall combination, TDI engine with DSG7 gearbox. So much for their expert opinion!

Maybe, it’s only VW Polo that this DSG7 (DQ200) gearbox is suitable for?

In my search for a solution, and research of the problem with my car, I came across lot of different car models (VW, SEAT, Škoda) with same problems. And one thing that is notable for me is, that very few Polo’s have this problem. All larger/heavier models, and more powerful engines have problems with this specific transmission (DQ200 – DSG7 with dry clutches). So I am tempted to conclude, that this gearbox seems to be too weak for anything that has more than 90 bhp (break horsepower). If it’s gearbox itself, or the clutches/flywheels that are problems, I am not sure. But one thing is, that they keep on selling a combination, that will cause problems for a buyer.

Last time, my car was serviced for DSG7 problems, was in August 2012, where VW refuse to do anything to the car, as they deemed it as working. Now, 5-6 months later, previous symptoms with gearbox/transmission are coming back again. I have lost all confidence in VW that they are willing to fix this.

Anyway, read the original article in Swedish here: http://www.teknikensvarld.se/2013/02/08/37996/volkswagens-dsg-skador-drabbar-alla/ 

Noise and shaking is back … again

Oh well … it lasted for a 6 months and problem is back again … Just like, the last times. They claim to have fixed it, and it lasts for few weeks, sometimes months and it’s back again …

Last night, I was driving and felt the grinding noise and shaking, again. I thought to have heard the noise before, very faintly  but tried to convince myself, that it was mine imagination. This time it was no mistake what it was. Drove for few kilometers and on an intersection after a full stop, it started to grind and shudder. Glanced at the odometer, and saw, 47.502 km. Which is about 4.500 km since VW claimed to have fixed the problem, and there was nothing wrong with the car.

Difference now is, I have case against them, and can’t complain about it, while this is going on. And the car is out of warranty, but VW ensured me that there is still two year warranty on parts they already replaced. So If it turns out it is still the same parts that are breaking, warranty will hopefully cover it. Unless they decide to replace something else now, or… after the legal proceedings are done.

Evidence against theory of “Serial Production Standard” …

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Last time I spoke to my VW Service Partner and VW Importer for Denmark, they wanted to find a reference car to see if this car has the same noise, and if it behaves the same way as mine does. I guess they are hoping to prove to me, that this car/model is supposed to do this. As they keep on telling me, that this is normal behavior for this make and model. And they need exact car as mine, to use it as reference point. I tried to argue and reason with them, in regard, that I could find evidence of others having same problems, on different makes and models. But it felt to deaf ears.

Here I will try to prove that this has nothing to do with the car/model or make but that it has to do with DSG7 design, which is most probably, flawed by design. And this is not going to be that hard, as this is easy to prove by simple search on the internet. So their reasoning, is, this is “serial production standard”. I wrote about this in my last post, here.

If this is Serial Production Standard for my car;

  • why is this happening to other models and makes;
  • why this did not happened from the start;
  • when they replaced the flywheel on my car, problem disappeared for about 18.000 km and then it came back, why.

No answers to these questions.

Let’s have a look on what models I have been able to find same complaints from their owners.

  • AUDI
    • A1 (1)
  • SKODA
    • Fabia (1) (2)
  • SEAT
    • Ibiza (1)
  • VW
    • Touran (1)
    • Scirocco (1)
    • Golf (1) (2) (3) (4)
    • Jetta (1)

This makes it easy for me to logically conclude that my car/model is not alone in this so-called, “Serial Production Standard”, and trying to prove it by finding a reference car that has the same configuration as mine is not going to prove anything. This is again, most probably an attempt to extend their time in which they have to figure out what to do, or how to reply to my inquiries, and waste mine.

Thread (in Danish) about problems with DSG7, on one of the big names in online used cars websites of cars in Denmark  Link: http://www.bilbasen.dk/forum/generelt/erfaring-med-automatikdsg/23512

On a Danish website, for owners of all Volkswagen AG (VAG) cars, are gathered and discuss all aspects of their cars, there is a poll about problems in general with DSG (6 and 7), and result is showing it clearly. Poll and discussion: http://www.vagcars.dk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=60305

Results as of writing this are, 110 people answered the poll, 68 (62%) did not have problems and 38% did have problems. Out of these there are 21 with DSG7 gearboxes. Of those, 10 (48%) had problems, while 11 (52%) did not have problems. I know, this poll is not scientific in any way, but that’s what it shows.